Tuesday, October 7, 2008

extra extra read all about it THE 4TH DEBATE!


My group had the 4th debate in the lincoln douglas debates. During the 4th debate Lincoln and Douglas debated against the rights of slaves and Judge Trumbulls charge against Douglas.

...This was a provision for submitting the constitution to a vote of the people”

Lincoln quoted from Trumbull referring to the Toombs bill. Trumbull claims Douglas added an extra part to the bill after he had proposed it to the people to lead them astray. Douglas retaliated in his debate and this is where the reference to Trumbull really gets good.

“He (Lincoln) spent his whole hour in retaliating a charge made by senator Trumbull against me. The circumstances out of which that charge was manufactured, occurred prior to the last presidential election, over two years ago. If the charge was true, why did not Trumbull make it in 1856, when I was discussing the questions of that day all over this State with Lincoln and him, and when it was pertinent to the then issue? He was silent as the grave upon the subject. If that charge was true the time to have brought it forward was the canvass of 1856, the year when the toombs bill passed the senate”

The debate continued on about the Trumbull charge and brought new information to the people. It is hard to say what exactly the truth was because of the the candidates provided valid points and it is obvious lincoln and trumbull agree in some matters as you can see in their abolition of slavery. But is Trumbull really just bringing his opinion up in order to get another candidate chosen that will agree with him more? Or is he making these comments truly in the consideration of the people?


the candidates views on slavery

Ok so i have a very long quote but i feel like the whole quote is necessary. Lincoln didn't believe blacks had equal rights, but he believed we could live in a world together but separately. It seems as if he views black people as inferior to him but who cares if they live in America just don't let them have control or interact with white people.

there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied every thing. I do not understand that because I do not want a negro woman for a slave I must necessarily want her for a wife. [Cheers and laughter.] My understanding is that I can just let her alone. I am now in my fiftieth year, and I certainly never have had a black woman for either a slave or a wife. So it seems to me quite possible for us to get along without making either slaves or wives of negroes. I will add to this that I have never seen, to my knowledge, a man, woman or child who was in favor of producing a perfect equality, social and political, between negroes and white men -Lincoln

Douglas didn't believe black people should be kept slaves because there were incapable of living as anything else. Lincoln had believed that black people could have there own families and success it just wouldn't cross over to the white people because they were just so much better. and they could be more than slaves. But nope Douglas believed it was slaves they should stay.

I say that this Government was established on the white basis. It was made by white men, for the benefit of white men and their posterity forever, and never should be administered by any except white men. I declare that a negro ought not to be a citizen, whether his parents were imported into this country as slaves or not, or whether or not he was born here. It does not depend upon the place a Negro's parents were born, or whether they were slaves or not, but upon the fact that he is a negro, belonging to a race incapable of self-government, and for that reason ought not to be on an equality with white men. (Immense applause.)

2008 debates

In the 2008 debates i believe that they were not filled with all of the energy and emotion that the lincoln-douglas debates had. However they did have finger pointing just like the older days. There was one instance where lincoln accused douglas of keeping information about the toombs law from the public but when douglas replies back its is a lot of finger pointing. the debate was quite intriging. I reliezed no matter what the candidates will be the candidates politics are politics. They will twist what they have to say how many ever times they need to just to get the votes of the people.


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